CITY OF CRESTVIEWHILLS KY
MINUTES OF REGULAR
COUNCIL MEETING
DECEMBER 12, 2002
7:30 PM
SEILER COMMONS,
THOMAS MORE COLLEGE
Call to Order – Mayor Paul W. Meier called the meeting to order with the Pledge of Allegiance and silent prayer.
Roll Call – Present: Ms. Terri Jameson, Messrs. David Kramer, Ralph Laird, Joseph Maloney, Harold A. Ries and Frank B. Sommerkamp, Jr.
Approval of Agenda – Mayor Meier asked that under Citizens & Guests Linda Chapman, Ranking and Rankin, be added to the Agenda. Ms. Chapman will give the Fiscal Year 2002, Audit Report. Agenda approved as amended:
Motion: Harold Ries Second: David Kramer
Ayes: 6 Nays: 0
Motion Passed.
Approval of the Minutes – Minutes of the November 14, 2002 regular meeting were approved as presented.
Motion: Ralph Laird Second: Joseph Maloney
Ayes: 6 Nays: 0
Motion Passed.
Citizens and Guests – Judge Wm. Schmaedecke swore in Mayor Paul W. Meier and Council Members – Ms. Terri Jameson and Messrs. David Kramer, RalphLaird, Joseph Maloney, Harold A. Ries and Frank B. Sommerkamp, Jr.
Linda Chapman, Rankin & Rankin, presented the Audit Report for FiscalYear 2002. Copies of that report were made available to Mayor and Council. Ms. Chapman explained the following:
Ms. Chapman asked if there were questions. There were none at this time. Ms. Chapman will attend the next Finance Committee Meeting to further explain the new format and answer questions the Committee has about the new system of accounting.
City Administrators Report – Dan Groth, City Administrator reported:
Mr. Sommerkamp inquired whether fees are anticipated to accelerate over that $4 or $5 amount on future sanitation bills. Mayor Meier sated that this fee is being assessed to cover engineering fees at this time. Mayor Meier stated that the Mayor’s Group is scheduled to discuss the issue at the Saturday, December 124 meeting. Mayor Meier stated that Mr. Eger, may be attending the Council Meeting in January or February to discuss the issue again.
Mr. Sommerkamp stated that the three County Judge Executives were not in favor of the fees.
Mayor Meier stated that the fees were assessed according to square footage. Businesses will be assessed in a different manner than residences, probably by an outright assessment of hard surfaces.
Second Reading of Ordinance 2002-11-1 – Text Amendment relative to setback requirements for the Shopping Center (SC) Zone- Mayor Meier explained that on November 7, 2002 there was a Public Hearing of the KC&MP&ZC to discuss this text amendment. That meeting was open to the Public, publication and notification of the meeting was in compliance with KRS100. Much citizen concern has been voiced about the issue. In October at the regular council meeting, citizens voiced their concerns. Testimony was not taken in the form of Public Record at that meeting. The reason for tonight’s meeting here at Se4iler Commons, Thomas More College is to allow for greater space, that more people may speak.
Mayor Meier asked that the Crestview Hills Mall Representatives state their views first, then those wishing to speak should state their name for the Public Record, speak briefly and in an orderly fashion.
Lawson Walker, Attorney for Crestview Hills Mall – Mr. Walker stated that the KC&MP&ZC voted 11 to 2 in favor of the Text Amendment. In order for revitalization of the Mall, First: Crestview Hills Mall representatives have asked for Council to allow Panera Bread to be built. Second step: The Mall is asking for upscale restaurants as anchor businesses for the front of the Mall. Third: The Mall is not asking for use changes to the Shopping Center Zone.
Under Kentucky law, the City must initiate the request and a Public Hearing must take place. The Mall first asked for a 50-foot setback for building and a 10-foot setback for the lot. The Mall has compromised this to a 75-foot – 20-foot setback. Any more compromise will affect the ability of the Mall to develop the property. Mr. Walker pointed out that right-of-way setbacks in Boone County are 30 feet, and 50 feet in Kenton & Campbell Counties. The Mall has tried to respect over the years, Council’s desire for a 150 foot set back requirement.
In 1978, zoning requirements for five out lots were set, though not specific. Six months ago council granted permission to split one of these lots. There is 50 to 100 foot of green grass between pavement and right-of-way. The Mall was state-of-the-art in 1978, however, now malls want restaurants and parking as opposed to square footage. Trio’s and Carrabbas cannot be moved back. The Dillard’s lease requires reservation of parking spaces to be 5.5 spaces per 1,000 foot for zoning for a retail establishment. This text amendmen t would make right-of-way reasonable in comparison to other Northern Kentucky Cities.
Jeff Anderson, Developer of Rookwood Commons spoke about the Cestview Hills Mall Property, stating that the area is compatible for the same type of development as the Rookwood Commons.
Mr. Kramer inquired as to the possibilitie4s of development of the South side of Panera vs. the North side. Jay Bayer, Bayer Becker Engineers, answered that building on the South side would block the view of Panera Bread building. In addition, it is not possible because of water drainage.
Mr. Anderson stated that a Geneva, South Carolina project that he was involved with has done a similar project as the one he is proposing for Crestview Hills Mall. This development used a central focal point of walkways and fountains, etc. in the center totaling 250,000 sq. ft. Of the 48 acres of Crestview Hills Mall property, Dillard’s occupies 20 acres, leaving 28 acres to develop. The way he has proposed the development is the best way to utilize this space.
Glen Anderson, Crestview Hills Mall Representative stated that the Mall has always tried to be a good corporate citizen to Crestview Hills. The Mall has turned down a Super-K and several restaurants interested in the area in past. In May, 2000 he has had 26 inquiries from prospects for the Mall. He has turned these down to respect the City’s zoning requirements. The original 50 foot/10 foot setbacks, which was his original proposal, and what the restaurants wanted, was negotiated to the 75 foot/20 foot setback and now to a 90 foot/20 foot setback. He needs the City’s assistance in order to develop this property. Mr. Anderson stated that he would also like to accept the developer, Jeff anderson’s deal and develop the Mall as suggested by that developer.
Hank Boehmer, a 48 year resident of Crestview Hills stated that the basic intent of the City, when it became a City in 1947 was to be a residential area. This was again a basic intent of this city when Ft. Mitchell allowed the development near Thriftway. Now, this city is looking at putting in 4 separate restaurants in the Mall area.
Mr. Boehmer presented 262 signatures on a petition which stated: “We, the undersigned, being property owners/residents of the City of Crestview Hills, Ky. Oppose the following: a. Parking within (inside of) 80 foot of the Right-of-Way on the East side of the Dixie Highway. b. Building within (inside of) one hundred-fifty foot of the Right-of Way on the East side of Dixie Highway – on property described as the Crestview Hills Shopping Mall. For presentation to the City Council members on the 12th day of December, year 2002 and prior to their vote concerning this issue.”
Of the 267 people approached – only 5 refused to sign. As an overall percentage of the population of Crestview Hills, Mr. Boehmer states that this would mean that 3200 people would be opposed. Mr. Boehmer implored Council to uphold the original zoning codes.
Mr. Boehmer stated that the Erlanger area has become a congested area because that City sacrificed to get restaurant business. This Council, in his view, should not let the fear of loss of opportunity keep them from turning down those restaurants. Mr. Boehmer said that he has operated seven paint tores in Northern Kentucky and there is no guarantee that those restaurants will not sell and ownership would change. Mr. Boehmer cited that Council, by allowing the MAC machine in the parking lot of the Mall has set precedence. The City, in his opinion, does not need the revenue badly enough to sacrifice the lifestyle of the community. Mr. Boehmer further stated that the Mall has had 22 years to develop that property and has not done so under the origi9nal zoning. Of the 500,000 sq. foot of space, why has only 396,000 sq. ft. been under roof and 100,000 square foot was never pursued for building, he asked?
Of the 2,710 parking spaces only 2,178 have been utilized and 532 sat as surplus for all these years. Mr. Boehmer further stated that in Ft. Wright’s allowance of 4.0 foot is per 1,000 sq. ft. and Norwood, where Rookwood Commons is located, had 4.5 per 1,000 sq. ft. of retail space. The commitment to utilize that parking area for retail purposes has been made for years with no results. Dillards has 1,375 spaces. The City paid $175,000 for a surplus lot with commitments to the Mall that the Mall can use 50 spaces for more parking. The City is getting nothing in return. Also, he suggested moving the service road as an alternative. This, Mr. Boehmer claims would leave a required 154 parking spaces for retail purposes, versus the 490 spaces now allotted. Further, Mr. Boehmer thinks that Council should have confidence in their predecessors, who refused to let the Mall control them. Mr. Boehmer also stated that, in his opinion, since the Mall’s depreciation time is fulfilled, therefore, serving that purpose for the owners, the owners will sell out the leases on the out front and the City will have no control over the type of businesses that go in once these leases are sold. He further stated that the autos parked in front of Panera give the concept of a used car lot. He stated that Council by allowing removal of the concrete island on Turkeyfoot and putting in flowers and trees and not giving attention to the aesthetics of the Mall is showing two sets of standards.
Jon Draud, State Representative and 21 year resident on V ernon Drive felt compelled to come to this meeting to express concerns regarding the green space. Mr. Draud does not approve of concession to the Mall that would do away with the green space. He stated that it is wrong for the Mall to change the rules: 1.) The Mall should abide by a 78-year agreement and 2.) in agreement with Mr. Boehmer, parking flexibility should be considered. Mr. Draud stated that he has never seen the Dillard’s lot crowded. Further, he felt it would be a mistake for Council to vote tonight. Instead, Council should take time to evaluate Mr. Boehmer’s data and make comparisons.
Charles Campbell, long time resident of Woodspoint Drive stated the issue should be the aesthetics regarding the front of the Mall as opposed to profitability of the Mall. Mr. Campbell stated that the Mall owners will be the ones to benefit form this zoning approval and the property owners will lose an economic benefit. This, he feels will be a serious detriment to the neighborhood. The original zoning should remain in effect.
Bob Zumbiel, a 16 year resident expressed agreement with Mr. Boehmer. Mr. Zumbiel stated that Council should give a second look at the Norwood Lifestyle Development and consider the traffic situation.
Tom Moser, a 40-year resident of the City, stated that the original intent of the City was a garden type community. The City has kept away from electrical poles by demanding that electric be placed below ground, rather than cluttering the neighborhood. Now, Council approval of this text amendment has the emphasis strictly on money. The City is getting nothing in return. He urged Council to consider the people’s wishes and vote against this text amendment. He further stated that there is not guarantee those same businesses will stay in those spots. Council should not cave to business interests but should stand by the citizens.
Dr. Kreyling, a 35-year resident, expressed opposition to the Text Amendment.
Jean McKinley, an 11-year resident, is tired of seeing the dead Mall. She does not want so many buildings on the lots, however.
Ed Monohan, referred to the past when Mr. Draud and residents fought hard trying to prepare for future of the Crestview Hills community. Mr. Monohan would like to hear from Dillards regarding their lease. He wants more research. He is not against Mall development but feels passage of this text amendment is premature and the decision needs more vision. Mr. Monohan would like to see Dillards make some concession. He also expressed fear that the tenants of the restaurants would change in the future.
Lee Grote, a Druid Lane resident does not think the City need smore restaurants because there are plenty in the area.
Charlie Kiefer, a Winding Way resident, feels the founding fathers had the right idea to preserve the green space for the community.
Mike Hargett, formerly a Lookout Farm resident now residing in Edgewood, thinks the Mall will develop eventually anyway, but could sell and a worse situation could affect the City if the matter is not given more thought.
Beverly Draud, a 35-year, Vernon Drive resident, has served 21 years on City Council. Mrs. Draud has been off of Council for 6 years and thinks she has seen both sides of the fence. She implored Council to think very carefully before making this decision and to keep in mind the residents. Crestview Hills is unique she stated and a desirable place to live. The City, she stated does not need the money. This is sad for the residents and she urged that a certain Councilperson, whom she did not name, could sway the vote-i.e., change their mind in favor of what is good for the community in the long run. Mrs. Draud also stated that she thinks this matter could come down to a tie vote, which would force Mayor Meier in the position of casting the final vote. This, she felt is not a desirable way to decide the issue.
Peggy Sensel, a 33 year resident who originally fought against loss of green space and against I-275 coming through the area. She also fought against the Mall in the beginning. Mrs. Sensel stated that she feels that the issue comes down to one of two decisions 1.) the green space or 2.) the Mall Development. That is the decision here tonight.
Jay Zang, 108 Vernon Drive resident statedthat though the Mall does present a compelling argument for the Lifestyle Development. He feels Mr. Boehmer has presented some excellent alternatives if the Mall would work with the City. Mr. Zang disagrees that the Mall has compromised. He likes the lifestyle he has now in Crestview Hills. He questions whether the City is desperate for the money. The nature of demographics is that it is inevitable that the property will be developed. The Mall should develop, but it comes down to choosing between the people’s wishes and the Mall’s wishes. Mr. Zang thinks the city is healthy because of citizen involvement. He thinks the leadership of the pas has done a good job getting and keeping the City livable but is not so sure about the future lifestyle. He urges Council not to pass this text amendment.
Henry Harris, a 6-year resident of the City, is embarrassed by the Mall and urges Council to live in the present and prepare for the future, not live in the past. The Restaurant incentive is a draw for business to the Mall is a good idea.
Ruth Hamilton, a 29-year resident lives directly across the street from the Mall. She loves living in the City and thinks it is beautiful. She works in the Norwood area and does not feel there is a problem there with congestion. Why five restaurants, she asks? She feels Council is isolating the other side of Dixie Highway, from consideration in their decision making regarding the Mall.
Randy Ogden, a 17-year resident who bought Dr. Oppenheimer’s old house. Mr. Ogend is a realtor, who has sold numerous residences in Crestview Hills. He feels that final sales are made because of the residential draw of the City’s present zoning and aesthetics of the City. Mr. Ogden gave the scenario of traveling south on Dixie Highway, stating that the trip up Dixie Hwy., beginning in Ft. Wright, through Lakeside Park, through Ft. Mitchell, then Crestview Hills, which is thus far a pleasant journey until it reaches Erlanger/Elsmere area with a congested non-residential look. He wants to keep the extra 60-foot section of green space.
Jack Krefting, is against the setbacks. He is a Dixie Hwy Resident. He listens at 6:10 am to Panera’s dumpsters. They are very loud. With five restaurants in there, he will consider selling out and moving.
Stephanie Durbin, who is not a resident of Crestview Hills but is for the development of the Mall. She states that nothing is predictable therefore Council should take this chance to assist in development. Who knows, the restaurants could sell and a subdivision could go back in there in the future.
Jim Williman, a Winding Way resident, originally signed the petition, but wishes to remove his name from the petition. He does not feel that People’s Bank now, The Bank of Kentucky has devalued the property in Lookout Farm. He does not like the present bank sign, however, and lack of attention to the landscaping. He thinks the landscape ordinance now sill be beneficial to the City to assure that business take better care of their property. He feels that Panera Bread looks much better than the empty parking lot. Anything, he states would be better than the present arrangement. He would like to see the Lifestyle Development and get rid of the blacktop.
Lawson Walker, Attorney for the Crestview Hills Mall, stated that the lease agreement with Dillards, on page 2, cannot be breached. The lease has an option to the lessee, i.e. Dillards, to automatically extend the lease (see attached copy of lease agreement). The City’s strenuous Landscape Ordinance, will take care of the aesthetics of the project.
Mr. Moser suggested that the ATM Buildings lease will not last forever.
Hank Boehmer stated that he does not oppose development of restaurants. He does feel that the Mall is asking for too great a sacrifice on the part of the City. Perhaps the 5.5 spaces per 1,000 square foot is out dated. He feels the Mall should renegotiate the lease for 4.5 or 5.0 spaces. He wants the Mall to compromise.
Mayor Paul Meier stated that the ATM Machine took only 6 to 8 spots and he does not feel that is a great concern. That lease has nothing to do with this issue. Also, to clarify the restaurant permitted use has been in existence for 22 years (1,000 gross leasable area per 5.5 spaces has also been there for that length of time). Professional advice has determined that there is a need for the restaurant on the Mall frontage to draw retail shoppers.
Mayor Meier suggested that at this time, Council be allowed to give a brief statement regarding their considerations regarding the Text Amen dment. The following are comments by Council members:
Ralph Laird – 12 years on Council – Every other Council meeting he has heard about no movement toward development of the Mall. Now the Mall has a chance to develop. He is in favor of the lifestyle approach of the developer.
Frank B. Sommerkamp, Jr.- Mr. Sommerkamp wishes to speak later.
Terri Jameson – Ms. Jameson expressed her pride in the Council – she feels there is room for compromise. The original rules regarding the Mall should not just be dismissed. She stands with the petition of the residents.
Joe Maloney – Mr. Maloney was there during
1978 & 1979 negotiations with Wilson Ferrell, the Mall representative at
that time, who agreed to the 150 foot setback.
Mr. Maloney thinks the Mall is aiming for bigger buildings with their
request for the setbacks for which they are aiming. Trio came into the picture wanting a bigger building. Signage will be even closer to the
highway. The Mall has gone to great
effort to confuse and intimidate the Council and residents.
David Kramer- Mr. Kramer respectfully disagrees that passage of this text amendment will hurt property values. He is inspired by the way the City fought on behalf of the residential area against the Cinergy power plant, therefore, he disagrees that Council is not sensitive to the residential community. He further stated that as a Council member he has not felt intimidated by the Mall negotiations. He feels that the lifestyle concept is a better use of the space than grass to mow. The Mall has now agreed to 90 feet for building setback and 20 foot setback for parking lot. The Mall has been under performing for too long. He feels the project will be good for the community and